Child development expert Christia Spears Brown discusses some surprising findings in Bigeye’s new, national consumer insights study, Gender: Beyond The Binary.
IN CLEAR FOCUS this week: Previewing Bigeye’s study, Gender: Beyond The Binary. Child development expert Christia Spears Brown discusses our report findings, reflecting society’s evolving views on gender identity and expression. We learn why humans are obsessed with gender differences, how categorization leads to stereotyping, and why fathers tend to be the “gender police”. Dr. Brown shares practical tips for raising kids to avoid gender stereotypes and create a less gender-obsessed future.
Adrian Tennant: Coming up in this episode of IN CLEAR FOCUS:
Christia Spears Brown: Gender stereotypes are so pervasive that I think parents really have to be committed to helping their kids learn about them and push back against them. In a lot of ways in which parenting practices play out along gendered lines, LGBTQ parents are much more egalitarian and you can see that filtering down into their kids. Gender is a real spectrum and there are lots of ways to express gender.
Adrian Tennant: You’re listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, fresh perspectives on the business of advertising produced weekly by Bigeye. Hello. I’m your host, Adrian Tennant, VP of insights at Bigeye. An audience-focused, creative-driven, full-service advertising agency, we’re based in Orlando, Florida, but serve clients across the United States and beyond. Thank you for joining us. In December, 2020, Oscar-nominated Juno and X-Men actor Elliot Page came out to friends as nonbinary and transgender preferring the personal pronouns he and they. Page joins a growing list of celebrities who are challenging gender norms, including Grammy award-winning singer-songwriter Sam Smith – who identifies as nonbinary – and Olympic gold medalist, Caitlyn Jenner, who was 65 years old when she came out to the world as a transgender woman. A 2016 study from the Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law estimated that around 0.5% of Americans identify as transgender or gender nonconforming. That equates to around 2 million people. But the US Census conducted last year provided only two options for respondents to classify their gender: male or female. Was this perhaps, a missed opportunity? Next week, Bigeye will release the results from our 2021 gender study, which analyzes Americans’ sentiment toward gender, beyond the binary of male and female. To understand whether or not depictions of traditional gender roles in advertising influence brand perceptions and to quantify consumers’ opinions about gendered products, we conducted a national study involving more than 2,000 adults representing a broad range of generations, socioeconomic backgrounds, geographic locations, and gender identities. Now, while the majority of Americans are cisgender – that is, their gender identity is consistent with the sex they were assigned at birth – a significant percentage of the youngest generations we surveyed believe that gender identity is fluid. In fact, one-half of respondents aged 18 to 24 believe that traditional gender roles and binary labels are now outdated. We also saw that a significant percentage of Millennial parents are supportive of gender-free early education, less stereotypical depictions of gender roles in children’s books, and are more likely than previous generations to encourage their kids to play with toys regardless of their traditional gendered associations. To discuss the results of Bigeye’s study, which we’ve entitled Gender: Beyond The Binary, I’m joined today by Christia Spears Brown, PhD, Professor of Psychology, and Associate Chair of Development and Social Psychology at the University of Kentucky. Dr. Brown is the author of several books, including the bestselling Parenting Beyond Pink and Blue, which offers practical advice for parents wanting to raise children free of gender stereotypes. Dr. Brown’s research interests also include children and adolescents’ perceptions of gender and gender identity development. Dr. Brown joins us today from her office in Kentucky. Christia, welcome to IN CLEAR FOCUS.
Christia Spears Brown: Thanks for having me.
Adrian Tennant: Christia, there’s a lot to unpack in this report. One of the key texts that inspired the Bigeye study was your book, Parenting Beyond Pink and Blue, in which you highlight some of the ways that society reinforces the idea that men and women are very different. You describe it as living in a world that’s obsessed with gender differences. So when does our obsession with gender start and why?
Christia Spears Brown: We really start from before children are born, right? We create a society where we focus on gender. So the first thing any pregnant woman is ever asked is “What are you having?” And the answer needs to be gendered, right? We have gender reveal parties. We see nurseries still, even in 2021, are highly gendered in how we decorate them. So really, before babies are born, we start setting up a society in which we use gender to color-categorize, to label them, and again, here, we mean gender as a binary. So we say, “Are you having a girl or a boy?” Right? So we focus at the very beginning. The language we use for kids is very heavily gendered. So we say, “Oh, what a pretty girl,” “What a strong boy you are.” So it’s embedded in the language of how we talk to kids. We see it in gendered clothing, even in infancy when you know, the parents scotch tape the bow to a bald baby’s head just so you’ll make sure to know that it’s a girl. So we label it really early and we seem to do that more with children than we even do with adults. So they’re really brought up from the beginning to pay attention to gender, to assume that gender is a binary, and to assume that it must be the most important characteristic about us because we talk about it so often.
Adrian Tennant: Early in your career, you conducted research that demonstrated how something as random as children’s shirt colors could lead to group-based stereotyping. Could you tell us more about that?
Christia Spears Brown: Sure. We would randomly assign kids to two groups. So we would put half the kids in red t-shirts and the other half of the kids in blue t-shirts and they would be in these classrooms during summer school for about six weeks. And what we’ve found is when the groups are the same size and the teachers don’t mention them, the kids ignore them. Right? So the kids weren’t really necessarily paying attention to these groups as important. But, if the teachers did anything to indicate that those groups had meaning – so if they said, “Good morning, blue and red kids, let’s line up” or, “Let’s have the blue kids get the tape and the red kids get the scissors”, or we had blue and red bulletin boards for example, then we found that kids really started paying attention to the groups. They developed stereotypes about what their group was like and what the other group was like. They developed prejudices about their group. They were more likely to help their group and not help the other. And we replicated this in lots of different conditions too, and lots of different years. And we would tweak things slightly one way or the other – change the size of the group, change some of the other characteristics of the group. But what we learned is that it’s not necessarily just having groups exist, right? So for example, gender: we do come in different sizes among adults based on gender. So there are some characteristics that identify us based on our hormones and some of our biology, but it’s the fact that we treat these as categories and that we embed meaning in those categories that seems to drive kids to pay so much attention to it, right? So when we were saying, “Good morning, red and blue kids” and kids are forming stereotypes we very much modeled it after saying, “Good morning, boys and girls, let’s line up boy, girl, boy, girl.” Right? So we were just trying to mimic what we do with gender and we found that that is enough to create stereotypes out of thin air after only a few weeks in a classroom. So if you extrapolate that to real life, what we do with gender, no wonder we have such strong gender stereotypes because we treat it as such an important characteristic.
Adrian Tennant: Christia, in addition to undertaking your own primary research, you’ve cited other researchers’ work and meta-analyses in your books that indicate that the differences between boys and girls are much less significant than most of us would believe. So in their psychological development, how different are males and females?
Christia Spears Brown: Surprisingly, there’s not a lot there. So there have been thousands of studies looking for differences between boys and girls, and men and women, because everyone is again, really pretty obsessed with documenting how we might be different. So in these meta-analyses, where researchers put all of these studies together and analyze across all the studies that have been done – and these are just studies that have focused on gender differences and have been published because of the gender differences – so even in that context, we see that of all the things they’re looking for, about 78% of the time, there’s absolutely no differences between men and women. They look virtually identical. So there’s only a few things that are actually different. So for example, one thing that seems to be somewhat biological, because it occurs pretty early is that boys are a little less able to do really high level impulse control. So boys are a little bit more impulsive, really early in life. We see that girls start talking a little bit before boys do. We’re talking a month or two. We’re not talking big gaps. Now, as they grow up, there’s often the assumption that men and women talk different, that women are much more talkative than men are. There’s actually no differences in how much men and women talk. There are some differences though, in how we use our language. So men are more likely to do things like use assertive speech – so it’s make demands, state their opinion. Women are more likely to be affiliative with their speech. So more likely to ask questions, ask for other people’s opinions. So that’s one difference that emerges in these big studies. But a lot of it is really nuanced. So men are a little bit more helpful, but only when someone is watching only in the studies where they have an audience. Women sometimes are shown to smile a bit more in studies, but only when someone is watching. So where we do see differences are things that we seem to have created. So there’s some differences not in math abilities or math understanding, but in self-confidence about math. So women are less self-confident in their math skills than men are. Women have worse body image than men do, although men are getting increasingly bad body image over time. But again, it’s because women see lots of images of very, very thin women in media repeatedly. And boys are a little more aggressive than girls. But again, that seems to be largely dependent on the fact that most of the toys and most of the media that we market to boys is also highly aggressive, right? So we set them up to be aggressive by all of the toys that we give them being aggressive, but that does emerge as a difference. So that’s really it, of all the things they’ve looked at for personality and temperament and all the type of academic cognitive skills we might have. Those were really the only ones that pop up. And so what’s important about that is in the scientific literature, there’s a thing called the file drawer problem. Whereas if I want to do a study showing how men and women are different and I go out and I do that study and I show no differences at all, that men and women are the exact same. The problem is journals don’t want to publish that because what I’m showing is null findings. So we just stick it in the file drawer and it never gets published. So the literature is going to show a bias towards finding differences, because it’s easier to explain finding a difference than not finding a difference. So finding nothing doesn’t actually get out there into the literature. So it’s really powerful to know that these meta-analyses are really looking at what’s published because that’s the stuff that’s going to exaggerate the differences that are there. All the studies that never found gender differences at all, probably aren’t even in the literature, they’re in researchers’ file drawers in their offices. So even the meta-analyses, even looking at the stuff that found differences, when you put them all together across – you know, almost 2 million people – you find that the differences are so tiny that the researchers that do that developed what they call a “gender similarity hypothesis”: the idea that we’re much more similar than we are different. And the other important part of that is that there’s more variation among men. And there’s more variation among women than there is between the average man and the average woman. So knowing someone’s gender is just not very informative, right? So men can be really high on the distribution or really low. And that completely overlaps with where women might be on some kind of distribution of whatever we’re looking at. So I think that’s the other part is that our individual differences outweigh our gender differences.
Adrian Tennant: Let’s take a short break. We’ll be right back after this message.
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Adrian Tennant: Welcome back. I’m talking with Dr. Christia Spears Brown, Professor of Psychology at the University of Kentucky, about some of the results in Bigeye’s research study, Gender: Beyond The Binary. For the gender research study, we asked all respondents a series of questions about the toys they played with as children. When it comes to toys for boys, over three-quarters of cisgender male respondents, agreed that when growing up their parents or guardians encouraged them to play with toys that are traditionally associated with boys related to construction and building or fighting and aggression such as K’NEX and Lego kits, G.I. Joe action figures, tanks, and of course, toy guns. Among cisgender females, three in every five agreed that they’d been encouraged to play with toys traditionally associated with girls – related to nurturing roles or their appearances such as baby dolls, Barbie dolls and accessories, ballerina costumes, makeup, and jewelry. But when we asked if their parents had encouraged them to play with any toys that interested them, regardless of their traditional associations with girls or boys, approaching two-thirds of cisgender females reported that was the case for them, in contrast with just under one-half of males. We also asked parents about what kinds of toys they encourage their own children to play with. Over three-quarters of all cisgender male parents encourage their sons to play with toys and games traditionally associated with boys – 77% – which is 17% higher than cisgender females. And for cisgender males with no college education, four-fifths do so. Significantly fewer LGBTQIA+ parents encourage their sons to play with toys associated with boys – just 50%. For toys and games associated with girls, we saw similar results. Over two-thirds of all cisgender males encourage their daughters to play with toys and games traditionally associated with girls 71% – 15% higher than cisgender females. And again, cisgender males with no college education are the most likely to do so at 73%. Interestingly, even fewer LGBTQIA+ parents encourage their daughters to play with girl toys at just 42%. But perhaps the most interesting finding is that approaching three-quarters of cisgender female parents reported encouraging gender-neutral play for their children at 73%, 14% higher than males. Cisgender females with college education are even more likely at 75%, but again, the most likely to encourage play with whichever toys or games interest their kids are LGBTQIA+ parents at 77%. Christia, do these results track with what you see in your studies and observations about evolving attitudes toward gendered play?
Christia Spears Brown: Yeah, I think they exactly track with what we see in other research. For cisgender straight men, we see this really across their lives. So when they’re boys, there are more gender restrictions on them. So they’re more likely to be teased for doing anything that’s outside of the gender stereotype. Their fathers are much more likely to punish and reward any type of what we call cross-gender play -so a boy playing with a doll, for example. So then when those boys grow up, when they become fathers, we see that cisgendered straight men are more likely to be the gender police with their children. So they are more likely to reward and punish gender-stereotypical play more so than mothers are. So, often when we think about gender stereotypes, we think about the ways that impacts girls – and they do in very real ways – but for boys, the real harm of gender stereotypes is that it’s so restrictive. So girls are really allowed a little bit more flexibility than boys are, and you see that same restrictions when those boys become fathers. The other part that tracks really closely with other research is that you see LGBTQ+ parents holding fewer gender stereotypes typically, and they seem to be more flexible with their kids. So giving kids more options to explore what their interests are, you see fewer gender biases when it comes to raising, when it comes to sharing household chores – in a lot of ways in which parenting practices play out along gender lines, LGBTQ parents are much more egalitarian and you can see that filtering down into their kids.
Adrian Tennant: In our study, respondents viewed a video about Mattel’s gender-free doll line, Creatable World. Each set includes a figure that looks like a prepubescent child and includes clothes traditionally associated with girls as well as boys’ clothing styles.
Creatable World Ad: Introducing Creatable World – create characters that are awesomely you. Add long or short hair, pants, hats, shirts, and skirts. It’s up to you. Mix and match for hundreds of looks. It’s so much fun. What will you create? Creatable World dolls, each sold separately.
Adrian Tennant: After watching the video, 60% of the parents in our study with kids aged under 18, said they would consider giving one to their child if it had been available to them. So Christia, is the toy industry making progress on gender-free play options?
Christia Spears Brown: I think definitely they are. I think there are more options available within the past two or three years than there were before. But I also think at the same time and perhaps related to it, you’re also seeing the toy industry leaning into even more gendered, stereotypical toys, kind of simultaneously. So you also see much more highly aggressive toys marketed to boys, highly sexualized toys marketed to girls. So I think what we’re seeing in toys is very similar to our divided culture politically, even as right now, you see this real division of a lot more gender-free options, more options that really celebrate gender diversity. And then you see some that are much more leaning into what I would argue are some of the worst gender stereotypes that we have about aggression and sexualization. So parents really are making choices as to which types of materials they want to provide to their kids.
Adrian Tennant: Christia, in addition to being an expert on child development, you’re the mother of two daughters. What were some of the things you did to avoid gender stereotypes as you raised your children and have they worked?
Christia Spears Brown: They’re still works in progress, so they’re 16 and 10 right now. But what I can say is that I definitely did practice what I preached about gender stereotypes. So I avoided using gender in my language. So, I refer to them as “kids.” I would change the language in the children’s books that I would read. The book on Curious George, where it’s labeled, “the man in the yellow hat”, I would label it, “the friend in the yellow hat”. I would just change as I was reading to make it a gender-neutral word to describe people. I wouldn’t use it to describe people unless it was really absolutely necessary. So I would say, “the person standing on the street,” or, “the mail carrier”, instead of “the mailman”. I brought a range of toys and clothes. I corrected gender stereotypes when the kids said them. I pointed out gender stereotypes when I saw them so that the kids would become better at detecting them themselves. I also talked a lot about how they could talk to their friends about having diverse preferences. So when one kid was getting made fun of for only liking superheroes, we role-played ways to talk to the kids that were saying negative comments to her, so that she would feel more confident in going against those stereotypes. You know, didn’t allow things like gender segregation of birthday parties. We said you either invite everyone or no one, right? We don’t do gendered-only parties of any kind. And really just talked about gender as this diverse kind of social construct and not a necessary function of what your private parts are. That it’s much more about how we express ourselves to the world. And also really avoiding heteronormative language and assumptions. Making sure to not assume what their sexual orientation or gender would be. And I think it’s worked frankly really well, both kids would approach gender and sexual orientation just as I would want them to. They have diverse interests. They have equal mix of male and female friends. They do some things that are typical of girls and some things that are very typical of boys. They both have positive views about their bodies and think that being strong is important. So, knock on wood so far, it’s going okay. But definitely it was a thing that I had to really focus on. And I mean, it does take time because I think gender stereotypes are so pervasive that I think parents really have to be committed to helping their kids learn about them. And push back against them. You can’t just hope having a one-time conversation is really going to do it or that you modeling a gender-egalitarian household is going to do it either.
Adrian Tennant: What are some of the ways that people whose gender identity is inconsistent with the sex they were assigned at birth deal with that gender dysphoria?
Christia Spears Brown: So gender dysphoria is the idea that you’re really unhappy and it really involves a lot of anxiety or potentially depression about your gender identity. But the reality is if kids are having parents support their gender identity and they’re allowed to express it and there’s that real social support, kids are really well adjusted. So that dysphoria idea really goes away if you take away the social stigma of it, and if you give kids support and let them be who they are and support that. And if we don’t pathologize it, then evidence is suggesting kids are really growing up very healthy and happy and well adjusted. It’s really when they’re not getting that support, when they’re made to feel like something’s wrong, that then you start to see things like depression and rates of suicide and the things that you’ve seen in older generations, I think now we’re seeing a real shift in parents’ knowledge that there are a range of gender identities. And that our goal as parents is really to support kids. I think as that starts to shift culturally, you’re going to start seeing a lot more people just express themselves as feels good to them. And then we see fewer of those negative mental health outcomes.
Adrian Tennant: One of our qualitative research participants identifies as nonbinary, uses the personal pronouns, they and them, and there’s also a parent. They’re raising one of their two children as a “theyby” who will be able to choose their gender identity at an older age.” Christia, what are your thoughts about this from a child development perspective?
Christia Spears Brown: We know kids have a sense of their gender identity before about kindergarten. So they have it pretty early. The kids who identify as something other than cisgender when they’re accepted by their parents and allowed to express their gender seem to be doing really well. We don’t have a lot of research on the effects of raising kids in this way cause it’s a growing trend. And so I don’t really know that consequences as a true researcher, but based on other work, we can extrapolate some things and I see a couple of benefits. So one is it normalizes whatever gender the child is choosing. So it helps the child feel that they can pick whichever gender they want. And so we know that normalizing a range of expressions is always good. So there’s never going to be a concern about whether that gender identity is supported or not. We know it also reduces the use of gender as a way to categorize. And we know that that causes stereotypes. So it’s already going to be limiting the gender stereotypes kids are paying attention to. Previously the concerns were really about peer teasing and rejection. Cause we know that kids in kindergarten are really focused on gender and gender categories and stereotypes. Kids in kindergarten are really big stereotype endorsers for the most part. But I think as this becomes more common, frankly, and as representation of people across the gender spectrum becomes more common, our attitudes are really shifting and I think kids’ attitudes are shifting. So I think eight or nine years ago, I would have been more concerned with peer feedback and like peers saying negative things. I think that that has shifted in the past few years, so that kids growing up now are really in a different climate than kids were 10 years ago. I think this is one of the areas where we’ve seen the most rapid cultural shift of any of the social categories we have. And part of it is this representation of gender diversity seems to be filtering into what kids are accepting of. Now if parents can give kids some strategies for how to talk to kids at school that might say something negative to them, if they don’t have a really clearly defined gender identity, then I think the other evidence seems to suggest that it could be positive. But again, we don’t have a big enough sample to say that definitively, but that’s my opinion based on what the other research suggests.
Adrian Tennant: Recognizing that the negative impact of gender stereotyping can start early in a child’s life, over the last few years, some European institutions have been offering gender-free education programs. Sweden, consistently ranked by the World Economic Forum as the fourth-most gender equal society in the world, has been a leader in the gender-free education movement. Its national curriculum requires that preschools quote, “counteract traditional gender roles and gender patterns”, unquote, by avoiding gender labels for toys and books. Teachers address children as a group with “friends” rather than “boys and girls” and individually by their first names only using a gender-neutral pronoun in place of the binary of her or hers and him or his. Curious about how US respondents would react to this scenario, in our study, we asked them to indicate whether they would approve or disapprove of the idea. Overall, 43% of all parents approve, but cisgender male parent without any college education were 12 points more likely to disapprove at 47%. Notable differences in response to the question also related to generational cohorts with parents aged 18 to 55 being much more likely to approve of non-gendered early education in contrast with those aged 56 and older, who are more likely to disapprove of the idea. And LGBTQIA+ parents are among those most likely to approve at 64%. Respondents who think of themselves as Republicans are significantly more likely to disapprove with 49% doing so- in contrast to the almost two-thirds of Democrats who approve – 65%. Christia, is there any evidence that supports the idea that gender-free education yields better life outcomes for children?
Christia Spears Brown: Well, there aren’t a ton of studies that are able to look at gender-free education because in the US, our education is so gender heavy-handed. But a researcher named Kristen Schutz has actually studied the gender neutral pedagogy in Swedish preschools. So she actually went to Sweden and looked at this research with some colleagues there and they found that kids that were in these gender-neutral preschools, where the teachers do exactly what you were describing, they had a greater interest in playing with unfamiliar kids of another gender. So they were more open to playing with a boy or a girl that they didn’t know. And they were also less likely to endorse gender stereotypes. So they were less likely to think, “Oh, that boy over there that I don’t know, he must be aggressive and get into fights a lot”, or, “That girl over there that I don’t know, she must be really caring and like to sit and play with dolls”. So they weren’t kind of unleashing all their stereotypes on others quite as much. So I think that’s going to ultimately lead to more positive outcomes. I think if you’re willing to interact with people that are different than you, that is going to lead to a richer, more interesting life experience, right? Mean, I think there’s a reason that education is really highly related to a lot of your findings. I think the more exposure you have to people that are different than you, it opens up your mind and allows you to see things from multiple people’s perspectives. So the study with the Swedish preschools is saying, when they’re not using gender, when they’re focusing on kids as individuals, they’re more likely to also treat new people as individuals and not as just a gender stereotype. I think that whenever we do that, that’s going to be positive for our life outcomes.
Adrian Tennant: Your book, Parenting Beyond Pink and Blue was first published in 2014. What have you observed has changed in the period since?
Christia Spears Brown: I think the big one is some of these issues we’ve been talking about, which is just the greater visibility and acceptance of gender-diverse individuals. So whether that be gender nonbinary kids, whether it be trans individuals, just a greater acceptance and awareness that gender is a real spectrum. And that there are lots of ways to express gender. I mean, I think things like celebrities and news coverage of people like Laverne Cox and even Caitlyn Jenner – I think those really high-profile cases that got a lot of media attention actually played a really big, important role. I think we sometimes think that, as researchers, we have to think, “Oh well that seems kind of silly just because someone was on a TV show”, but that representation has led to ripple effects and have been really profound for visibility. And I think when you have more visibility and more representation, it leads to greater acceptance. And when you have greater acceptance in the culture, it leads to greater acceptance for kids. I mean, I think you see that for every stereotype group we have. I think I was writing that book probably in 2012. If I was writing it again, I would have had kind of a different take just because the world has really shifted. And I think in great ways, ways that are positive for kids, but it’s been a really rapid and profound shift.
Adrian Tennant: Christia, I’m going to be looking out for the second edition of Parenting Beyond Pink and Blue, with the extra chapters.
Christia Spears Brown: Well, I’m actually writing another book that’ll come out in the fall called Unraveling Bias and it’s really looking at gender diverse youth and the ways in which we can be more accepting and how our cultural attitudes really are important for kids to have healthy development.
Adrian Tennant: Christia, if IN CLEAR FOCUS listeners want to learn more about your studies or your books, where can they find you?
Christia Spears Brown: I think Twitter’s where I’m most active. So @ChristiaBrown is probably the easiest place to find me where I try to be the most engaged in the social media world. And then just my regular website of ChristiaBrown.com.
Adrian Tennant: Christia, thank you very much for being our guest this week on, IN CLEAR FOCUS.
Christia Spears Brown: Thanks for having me. This was fun.
Adrian Tennant: 2021 is shaping up to be a pivotal year for brands with a greater focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion within advertising and in the ways that advertising depicts people. Bigeye will be publishing a limited season of podcasts focusing on the issues raised in our national study. I hope you’ll join us for those special episodes that look at gender beyond the binary. Coming up next time on, IN CLEAR FOCUS:
Tim Moore: COVID was a big shock to our business. You know, 80% of our work was on location. And so when we couldn’t travel to the location we had to find a way to do things differently and with virtual production, now we can bring the location to us.
Adrian Tennant: That’s an interview with Tim Moore, CEO of the new Vū studio in Tampa – an environment that marries high-resolution, three-dimensional LED video backdrops with motion control, making it possible to capture complex, photorealistic imagery in-camera rather than requiring computer-generated imagery or CGI. A look at the cutting edge of video production, next time on IN CLEAR FOCUS. Thanks again to my guest this week, Dr. Christia Spears Brown, Professor of Psychology and Associate Chair of Development and Social Psychology at the University of Kentucky. You’ll find links to the resources we discussed today on the IN CLEAR FOCUS page at Bigeyeagency.com under “Insights.” Just click on the button marked, “Podcast.” If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Audible, YouTube, or your preferred podcast player. Thank you for listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS produced by Bigeye. I’ve been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next week, goodbye.