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Revealing Deeper Consumer Insights with Projectives

Projective techniques are powerful consumer insights tools – but are often misunderstood. Our guests, Dr. John Whittle and Nigel Roth share ways in which projectives can uncover consumers’ deepest motivations, responses, and how they really feel about brands. We discuss real-world case studies and hear recommendations on how and when to use different projectives. A fascinating dive into techniques that encourage participants’ imagination, expression, and free association.

Episode Transcript

Adrian Tennant: Coming up in this episode of IN CLEAR FOCUS

Dr. John Whittle: In a creepy, if somewhat ideal way as researchers, if you could just pluck an experience out of someone’s brain, that would be far easier.

Nigel Roth: What it comes down to is being able to make a decision that’s going to attract the kinds of consumers you want to your product, service, brand, or organization.

Adrian Tennant: You’re listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, fresh perspectives on the business of advertising produced weekly by Bigeye. Hello, I’m your host, Adrian Tennant, VP of Insights at Bigeye. A full-service, audience-focused creative agency, we’re based in Orlando, Florida, serving clients across the United States and beyond. Thank you for joining us. When we conduct qualitative research or simply “qual”, we’re typically aiming to understand the “why” behind participants’ behaviors and opinions. One of the challenges facing qualitative and quantitative researchers is that people are often unaware of the reasons that lie behind the decisions and purchasing behaviors. So researchers use what are known as projective techniques to tap into participants’ deeper motivations and attitudes. During COVID-19, a lot of qualitative research that was previously conducted in-person, such as focus groups, moved online, either through synchronous Zoom calls or asynchronous online communities. I’m joined by two guests today who are experts in projective techniques and other consumer research methodologies. Both guests are from Further, a human insights agency headquartered in the UK. Dr. John Whittle is a social scientist who made the leap from academia to commercial research. As a market researcher, John has helped Google understand the emotional context and barriers to smart home technology, innovated bacon across three continents, and explored definitions of modern masculinity for Gillette. John teaches research best practices at universities across the UK, for the Market Research Society, and in Further’s own webinar series. He’s also directly involved with the management of Further’s online research platform, Together. John, who’s Director of Client and Research Experience at Further, is joining us today from his home office in Cheshire, England. Also joining us today is Nigel Roth, Further’s Head of Research. Nigel has been living and breathing marketing, insights, and advertising for over 25 years, living and working on three continents. During that time, he’s built strategy for clients across every sector and vertical uncovering insights and identifying the response triggers that encourage behavior change. Nigel’s career has included roles leading marketing and communication for the YMCA and Oxfam in India, the early-stage creative development division of Ipsos in North America, and providing quantitative and qualitative backed insight and strategy for brands, including Colgate-Palmolive, Ben and Jerry’s, and Tom’s of Maine. Nigel is joining us today from his home in Oxfordshire, England. John and Nigel, welcome to IN CLEAR FOCUS!

Dr. John Whittle: Thank you for having us.

Nigel Roth: Thank you.

Adrian Tennant: John, could you start by telling us a little bit more about Further?

Dr. John Whittle: Sure. We’ve been in the industry for over a decade. We’ve had one of the longest-standing technology platforms in the industry, which is focused on online qual. But in the last five, six years since I joined really, we’ve expanded our scope and our services. We’ve really recognized that it’s very important to still have good technology. And we work really hard and there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes trying to keep our technology up to date. We recognize that, you know, that’s only one part of what people need. And the research industry has changed a lot actually in the time that we’ve been around. We recognize that because there are so many methodologies and there are so many platforms out there, even if you feel like you’ve nailed online qual with one platform, if it goes to another one, that’s got different nuances and different things. Our best position, and a lot of the work we do at the minute, is supporting research teams and we support them to get them ready for day one. We brought on excellent project managers. We’ve been forging links in the industry for a long time. So. if you just want to use us for the platform, we’re there and we’re going to support you, but if you want us to help you recruit and design, and I know we’ve done that work with you, Adrian as well, you know, in terms of making sure that when it comes to day one, when you guys need to focus on running the insight work and looking good and managing the client relationship and delivering the insights, that’s what we’re there for. And you know, we still have our own end clients – Nigel heads up that division. He’s a fantastic qual director and he’s responsible for running the side of the business – that is that agency model where the end clients comes and says, “What are the answers?” and Nigel brilliantly delivers on those. 

Adrian Tennant: Nigel, you’re relatively new to Further, but you have extensive experience in research for advertising strategy and account planning. Could you tell us a little bit about your role as Head of Research?

Nigel Roth: Everything that John does is one side of it and the other side is there’s a kind of more working with end-users, end-clients. And so my role is really to make sure that whatever they come to us with, we can deliver a project which leads them to one point. And at that one point there are always confident decisions. So there are research agencies that will talk about insight, learning, recommendations, all those things are wonderful. And they’re all part of what we do. But in the end, what it comes down to is being able to make a decision that you feel confident with, a decision that’s well-informed, a decision that makes sense within the context of the business. And a decision that’s going to attract the kinds of consumers you want to your product, service, brand, or organization. So my role is to pick up those projects, design them, work with the client to understand what their strategy is and what their goals and objectives are. Put together a design that gets to that point, run that project with my internal team, including John and the operations team that we have at Further, and then deliver a report that answers everything they’ve ever wanted to know plus more!

Adrian Tennant: Now, Nigel, although I think you’re primarily qualitative in your approach, you do employ mixed methods as well – is that correct?

Nigel Roth: Yeah, that’s true. I began in qual, well –  advertising research a long time ago. So advertising research was the first thing I ever did. And that was quantitative. That was back in 1980-something-or-other for a company called Burke Marketing, which actually was out of Cincinnati originally, but then was in the UK in a place called Stonebridge Park. That’s a long, long time ago. That’s where I began. And as soon as I started working in advertising research and understanding that we got certain numbers and scores back, the first thing I said was, “Well, those are great, but I don’t understand why we’re getting them.” So what I did was, I bolted on qualitative groups to the back of advertising research. I managed to create hybrid research without knowing what I was doing, I was only 24 or something. And so from then onwards, I’ve always been much more interested in this kind of hybrid of quant and qual communities, whatever it might be, anything that you need to do to get to where you need to get. And so, although I am primarily qualitative in my outlook and in the way I work, I understand the quant site as well and the importance of having those numbers to being able to, you know, say, “We absolutely know what’s going on here,” but I also want to add that qualitative pick to say, “Why is it going on? And what else can we do to learn from it?”

Adrian Tennant: Globally, we’ve experienced waves of lockdowns and social distancing over the past 18 months, of course, which has meant that here at Bigeye, we’ve not been doing any in-person depth interviews or focus groups. We’ve been conducting one-on-one interviews via Zoom and Google Meet. But for groups, we’ve been using Further’s asynchronous platform called Together that you referred to earlier. John, for listeners who are unfamiliar with the idea of Market Research Online Communities, could you describe the platform for us?

Dr. John Whittle: Yeah, of course. They’re like bespoke social media platforms, right? They’re places where you can invite people on and you can really explore and understand through rich multimedia methods – life! Methodologically, what we do in consumer research is we often say, “Right, we want to understand how you make decisions or the emotional drivers behind your decisions. The way we’re going to understand that is we’re going to take you out of that context, we’re going to put you in a facility with someone you’ve never met before, or a group of people you’ve never met before. And then we’re going to ask you questions about everything that happens outside of that room.” Now, sometimes that is the method that you need. Sometimes you need to be able to watch, you know, temperature changes, how people flush, to see the whites of their eyes. You need to test that stuff very quickly as well. Other times, if you’re really trying to understand emotional decision-makers or you’re trying to understand things across the diverse geographic region – because again, remember most people that attend interviews and focus groups are often, it skews towards being socially mobile. They have the ability to go and visit. They have the confidence to visit. And also most importantly, they have the ability to express themselves, at least in some way, verbally. ‘Cause you’re not going to invite someone there who’s a mute, or maybe you will, if they’ve very good at sign language, but often they have a way to express themselves And you need them to be able to do that in a performative sense. Online communities offer an answer to those well – if they’ve got a really valid point of view, right? What if they are actually the biggest part of the consumer market, but they’re really bad at talking to people?. What if they can’t travel to that focus group facility? Online communities offer you a gateway where you can bring people on and you can get them to share. Now because they make use of technology, they allow you to gather video, photo, documents, images, text, voice, and they allow you to share that. We’ve traditionally called Together an online qualitative platform, but really it has both quant and qual – it is a research toolbox. It allows you to explore things in an unstructured way. I can send you out to the shops. You can tell me about it via a lengthy paragraph If you want. Or as you’re in the shops, you can record your adventure and you can narrate it to me. We can get you to do very literal things. But because we’re also engaging with you – often over a sustained period of time – because most online communities run for days not hours, because again, it’s often asynchronous. You don’t need people like we’re speaking right now. They can phase in and phase out. You engage with them in different moods at different times in different locations, you have different ranges of identity. They give you a huge range and scope in terms of what you want to do. 

Adrian Tennant: What are some of the ways that you’ve seen other agencies using together during COVID? 

Dr. John Whittle: I’m always surprised that for an industry that is focused on innovation and newness, as an industry itself is quite stuck in the past in many ways. And COVID was fascinating because it really forced some researchers to have to start to learn online methodologies. And whilst they are rooted in the same understanding of human beings, there are slight differences. Interviews and focus groups are often about charisma. They’re about being able to pay attention to things in the moment. They’re not necessarily about planning and strategy. Online qual, because you’re not there, often has more similarities sometimes with quant. You’re scripting or writing a guide, you’re translating a live topic guide into activities that someone can complete without you being there to navigate. You will moderate a subsequent time. So we saw a lot of people having to jump into that and really get to grips with that very quickly. How agencies used it – we saw an increase in product testing. A lot of the work we did in the last 18 months was shipping products out. Helping consumers explore them. You know, stuff that would have normally been done in testing facilities was done online. And funnily enough, a lot of the teams who were doing that, who used to have to travel to these testing facilities suddenly went, “Hang oon a second. You mean that we could have done this in people’s homes? And it would cost the same or slightly less than what we were doing?” “Yeah, exactly.” “You mean that I didn’t actually have to leave my house?” Well, for a lot of teams, I think the biggest takeaway for them was volume. If you’re running things online, because you’re not physically needed in a location, if you’ve got good planning and good support, you can actually run a lot of projects side by side because they’re on a screen and you can dip between them. So you know, we often have a lot of projects running as a team ‘cause we can sit there and we can manage this bit and we can do this bit. And we’re organized. I think that’s what a lot of teams realized – it was about how can you suddenly streamline? You’re opening up the whole world –  that’s the thing – you’re not constrained now to planes. So a pandemic that put you at home, all of a sudden actually opened up the world of research to many in a really fascinating way.

Adrian Tennant: Qualitative research is rooted in clinical psychology. Early versions of personality tests were the antecedents of a category of qualitative research techniques we now refer to as projective. These are designed to prompt responses from participants And often deliberately ambiguous to engage people’s imagination. John, what are some of the most commonly used projective techniques originally developed for in-person groups that you see working really well online, either synchronously or asynchronously?

Dr. John Whittle: Yeah. I’m a big fan of projective and think online, because it is interactive and because it can display stimulus. And not only just because it can display stimulus, but because it can gather the data and output from that interaction real easy, I think it’s a really great place to use them. I mean, ultimately we use projectives because sometimes a topic or an experience is not going to be easy to share. In a creepy, if somewhat ideal way as researchers, if you could just pluck an experience out of someone’s brain, that would be far easier. But you know, we – all of us, whether we know it or not – we typically tend to work as qualitative researchers in what was called the interpretivist school of thought. So we believe that social reality is constructed and that in order to change it and understand it, we have to understand experience. in order to understand experience because we can’t read minds, we have to get people to share it. People are sometimes good at that. People are sometimes bad and more often than not what we’re interested in isn’t even necessarily the first layer of a question. Often, I think what we all do again, sometimes unknowingly as qual researchers, is we’ll ask you one thing, but we’re actually really interested in the other thing that you’re going to be doing. In terms of online, this is often where those tools, as I say, where you get people to interact with something a projective is often anything where you’re not just asking a straight question. “I want to understand this, do this for me.” So I was just having a chat with a client today about understanding emotion and culture and human elements. And he sent me this deck and he said, “How would we even do this online?” And it’s basically just a list of words – it’s like a list of emojis or words and stuff. And it’s a case of understanding employee culture. How would you use it online? Well, if I just said to you, “Yeah, so Adrian talk to me about how you’re feeling today.” What your brain immediately does, it goes, “Right. Hold on a second. Alright. Let me think about today. I’ve thought about today. Okay. What are the words I’m going to use? Right. These are the words, right. Then I’m going to speak about it. Then I’m getting…” You’ve already justified, rationalized, and then expressed. Okay. And you filtered it immediately. And only if you’ve done that, you’ve thought about the context you’re in, who you’re talking to, the identity that you’re trying to play, all these layers are starting to cloud this answer. And then I’ve got to hope Adrian – as I know you are – but I’ve got to hope that you’re really good at talking about that. And maybe I can unpick it a little bit. Projectives move past that. Projectives say “Look, here’s something. You just engage with it.” And it is often deliberately ambiguous because that ambiguity and that level of interpretation is what we’re interested in. “Here’s a series of characters. Here’s a series of archetypes. What works for you? What do you like?” And often then it’s our job as researchers to look at that. So, for example I was speaking to someone about this earlier. If I turned to a mother and I said, “Talk to me about your experiences of motherhood.” That’s a huge question. You know, there’s so many elements to that. If I use something more like the blob tree, which is a very renowned series of projectives and I said, “Look, here’s an image of all these characters on a blob tree, pick three that represent your experience of motherhood.” And this is what we did for UNICEF. All of a sudden everyone’s funneling into the same point, but then their experience is diverged. So we have a baseline that we can understand. So as I say, it’s about middle ground. It’s about often providing great stimulus and just good questions around that.

Adrian Tennant: Let’s take a short break. We’ll be right back after these messages.

Sandra Marshall: I’m Sandra Marshall, VP of Client Services at Bigeye. Every week, IN CLEAR FOCUS addresses topics that impact our work as advertising professionals. At Bigeye, we always put audiences first. For every engagement, we’re committed not just to understanding our clients’ business challenges but also learning about their prospects and customers’ attitudes, behaviors, and motivations. These insights inform our strategy and collectively inspire the account, creative, media, and analytics teams working on our clients’ projects. If you’d like to put Bigeye’s audience-focused consumer insights to work for your brand, please contact us. Email info@bigeyeagency.com. Bigeye. Reaching the Right People, in the Right Place, at the Right Time.

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Adrian Tennant: Welcome back. I’m talking with Dr. John Whittle and Nigel Roth from Further, a human insights agency about the use of projective techniques. Nigel, thinking about qualitative research to yield insights that can help inform a brand strategy or inspire a creative brief, which projective techniques have you found especially useful?

Nigel Roth: Well, I mean, I think as John says, there’s an awful lot of different projective techniques and essentially, for a lot of it, it comes down to what I call stimulus-response. Right? So when you ask someone to come up with an ideal car, they typically come up with a BMW. Not because it’s the ideal car, but because as humans, we can’t often create things, but what we can do is respond. So a lot of times, with projective techniques that I use, it’s about response – as it always is, it’s the kind of response you get. So I think a couple of things I’ve found – and I’ll relate it to virtual qual as well – in the online world, which I think is really interesting. I remember 15 years ago, people saying, “If only we could get into people’s homes and do some ethnographic work and how much would that cost and is it difficult?” All of a sudden, that’s all we can do! So funnily enough, everyone is at home. I think that’s absolutely brilliant. I mean, I think they feel more comfortable at home in their own environment. And I think you can use all sorts of different techniques with them. We did some work recently with businesses around Europe, looking at a small business and what they’re really interested in. And we used virtual fridge magnets. One fridge was one brand, and the other fridge was another brand. And people could actually go on and pull those magnets over to different places. They also created words as well so they could kind of create words and phrases with those within different brands. And what a cool way to do it rather than, “Oh, tell me what you think about this”, right? Like they could actually drag them across and create those phrases and words, on different brand fridges, which I thought was really nice and good fun. And I think you can use that with strategy all the time. I mean, a lot of brand strategy’s about where does the brand go next? That’s why we’re called Further. What is happening next? What does it show up? We did some work recently with brands, we’d talk to marketing directors, a lot of them talked about how they show up, how does their brand show up? Because we do have a different world that we’ve come out of after two years of all sorts of craziness that’s gone on, which has churned everything up. And so what we’ve found is we’ve almost got this more mindful consumer, but we called it The Mindful Consumer – not necessarily mindful positively or negatively, they’re just thinking differently. And so if you take that mindful consumer, what are they now thinking? What do they now feel? What do they want, what do they require? And for a brand to show up and meet that you’ve got to kind of bridge that gap. So a lot of those techniques, it’s trying to understand that, to get to where brands should now be or what they should look like, which is quite interesting.

Adrian Tennant: Do you have a couple of examples you could share with us that demonstrate how qualitative research informed the direction of campaigns or initiatives that you worked on?

Nigel Roth: I have quite a few of those having been around for quite a few years. Let me give you a couple of good ones that I enjoyed. Oh, a long time ago we did some work for Diageo. It’s interesting, you know, people talk now about different segments in different communities. We did it 20 years ago. It was just called something different, but what we ended up having was a real youth section segment, which was really important. And was it really going to drive this particular brand forward? So what we did with that is we hired actors to come in. They were exactly the right age. They were male, female, whatever as needed, they came in dressed like they were going out for a night out or Saturday night, pockets full of whatever they would have. They sat down with attitude on the chair and they met the marketing team and the brand team, and they just sat there and looked at them. And I kind of started off by saying, “Do you want to tell these guys to think about yourself?” “No.” “Well, you gotta tell them something.” “None of them said anything. “It’s all me. It’s personal.” And it went like that. And then eventually these brand guys and girls we’re kind of saying, “No, come on, what’s in your pocket? What’s this? What’s going on?” And this was qualitative – alive. You know, these are their customers. There were consumers sitting there, which I thought was fascinating, and fantastic, and a lovely experience. I guess maybe another one would be we did some great work with Excedrin, the GSK brand in the US, and the work behind that was really interesting because it was all about migraines and the really strong migraine one. And what we were trying to get to was understanding migraine. Particularly for carers as well, because one of the things that was identified was that if you’re suffering from a really bad migraine, you say to your partner, “Bring me some medication, bring me something, give me something,” and they’re then responsible for bringing it. So if they’re responsible for bringing it, they’re probably responsible for buying the right stuff in the first place. So how do we get carers to understand what it’s like? And is there a way to create that empathy? And we did a lot of work on that. Bringing people with migraines and other people who didn’t suffer from migraines in rooms together, and having them sit there for 20 minutes and describe this to them. And we saw these people get it and become empathetic and understand what was happening. And so start to think about how they would change their behavior if their partner was suffering. And it got to a point where at some point, respondents or a carer, on the other side of the table – these are kind of paired depths – said something like, “I wish I could just experience that just to understand it.” And so what we helped GSK develop were these virtual reality glasses, where you could actually experience having a migraine. So they developed this technology, we gave it to carers and supporters and partners to look out and to understand. They wore it for half an hour and they understood exactly what migraine felt like. And of course, they realized that the only brand to buy was Excedrin Migraine, which was the best brand to use for that. But you do feel when you do a project like that that yes, of course it’s commercial, but you know, you’re also helping people and you’re also helping people be understood. And if you can combine those things, then you’ve got a perfect project.

Adrian Tennant: Great examples. We’ve seen a tremendous amount of change during COVID-19, and I’m curious how you see research and insights developing during the remainder of this decade. John, what roles do you see marketing research and insights playing more or less of in the future?

Dr. John Whittle: It’s something I have to think about – especially being responsible for the direction that a technological platform might go in. The words “AI” always immediately flow into these conversations and I think we still have this dichotomous relationship of thinking AI is either gonna rise up and kill us, or why isn’t it already doing all the things that we hate doing immediately, right? I remember attending conferences all over the world and thinking, “Oh, AI will soon replace the core research.” I’m thinking, “Will they ever be able to pull together random series of events that our qualitative brain is able to pull together into a case of insight and look at what really matters?” I think there is an element in the technological sense. If we look at that first, particularly in research technology, as I said in the last 18 months to two years, we’ve seen a greater embracing of online. I think there is still a way to go, particularly with online research, there is a way to go to make that more approachable and amenable to people. When that happens, there’ll be a bit of a shift as there’s still quite a lot of barriers to learning and education. I still believe that researchers are perhaps the most underserved users of technology. Our research processes have not changed. The tools that we used to execute those I don’t think have kept up. I reckon most of us are still using a notepad and a pen or a word document somewhere or somewhere to write your notes. Right? Pretty much. Yeah. That’s not changed. There’s something around that. There’s an unmet need I think there. So I think maybe that’s where that will go. Will AI feature in that maybe, maybe not. Will it do my washing up for me? Let’s hope so. in terms of the rest of the industry, I think the research agency model was an interesting one. And I say that knowing that some of the work that we do anyway, I think there is pressure on a lot of brands to bring things in-house. And I think one of the things I’ve always struggled with is in our research industry there was not a lot of formal training. I think there’s a lot of expectation and I think what can sometimes happen is that the quality of insight that is produced sometimes isn’t always on the power of where it should be. And I think there’s a challenge when you see when people bring that in-house because there are brands making decisions off the back of research that may not necessarily be as quality-driven as it could be. I wonder if we’ll continue to see that. I think what we’re going to see is a lot more of a hybrid model of working. A lot more agencies, but particularly brands leaning on teams that can pitch in and support them, as they’re expected to do more, but with less resources and time. but yeah, I’m fascinated, I think less in terms of the technology than in terms of the people. I think that the last piece of the pie then is understanding experience. You know, for my generation, the generations below will probably keep up with technology right up until the point they try to implant it into you. That’s where the next game-changer will be. That’s where my generation will tap out and go, “Nope, no thank you. Don’t want to do that. I don’t want to turn into a cyborg.” That’s where I think there’s going to be a division. And I think that’s probably where you see the next big thing. Where actually, you’re getting biometric readouts of someone as they look at an ad. Internally, how much did the heart rate go up? What was their cortisol level? How much did that spike? What did that actually do in terms of their muscles twitching? That’s going to be where we’re going to start artificially engineering response times and response mechanics way, way down the line. But that’s where I eventually see it going. And I hopefully won’t be alive to see that we’ll be involved with it at that point!

Adrian Tennant: Nigel, how do you think the industry might change in the next decade?

Nigel Roth: I did a project recently which was all about talking to marketers about their business and how they buy marketing consultancy. And I think in a way, what came out of that was a new strategy for that agency to build a consultancy. And I think that strategy is more of what I’m seeing in the business I’m doing. It’s less about “Should it be blue or green?” or “Should it be this size or that size?” It’s a little bit more about “What does our business look like in the future?” And we’ve been doing a lot of business-to-business research as well recently, which has been really interesting, I think with all the areas of sustainability and regenerative brands and mindful consumers and diversity, inclusion – all these things that are bubbling around for businesses and companies – I think what I’m seeing is a lot more of the “What do we look like? What do we do? How do we become modern? How do we become contemporary?” And so a lot of the work I think is possibly not so much product-oriented, but more business-oriented at the moment. Certainly in the next couple of years it’s “What does a business look like?” Because the other thing we’ve seen is that people buy products from companies that are hitting some of those targets and ticking some of those boxes. And even with my own kids, you know, I’ve seen them… they came home the other day with these wooden toothbrushes. And I said, “What are those about?” and they said, “Oh, the company that produces them, it’s a sustainable production.” And I said, “Do they work?” And they’re like, “I don’t know. Guess so.” And how would you know whether it worked or not with teenagers? But I think the point was that, you know, they bought them because of the company that produced them. So a lot of the work I’m seeing more of is looking at getting that company or that organization in order in terms of some of these key things to be able to then say, “Hey, buy our product because we’re doing what we can and we’re doing the right thing.” That might be a little bit of a shift that we’re seeing certainly, maybe the industry will too.

Adrian Tennant: John, if IN CLEAR FOCUS, listeners would like to learn more about Further, where can they find you? 

Dr. John Whittle: They need to head to www.go-further.co. They’ll be able to find out about us and the way we work. And if they want to, check out any of the free resources we give – we’re real big givers at Further! We really like to make sure we’re trying to give people as much as possible. They can head over to our resources page. There’s a ton of stuff written by Nigel, by myself, there are free guides on there. There’s just loads of stuff that we’re trying to pour out, to really help because we do understand that people are time-poor, there’s more pressure than ever to deliver. You know, obviously, we’re trying to show our own expertise and we’d love to partner and collaborate with people where possible, and they can always reach out and get in touch with me at john@go-further.co, as well.

Adrian Tennant: And if this episode has piqued your interest in projective techniques and their use in online qualitative research – John, I know you’re going to be leading a webinar focused on these topics.

Dr. John Whittle: Yeah. I’ll be looking at, you know, why do we use them? What are they used for? And I’ll be sharing some examples.

Adrian Tennant: The webinar is tomorrow, that’s Wednesday, December the first, and we’ll include a link with details in the transcript that accompanies this episode. John and Nigel, thank you both for being our guests this week on IN CLEAR FOCUS!

Dr. John Whittle: Thank you.

Nigel Roth: Our pleasure. Thank you.

Adrian Tennant: Thanks again to my guests this week, Dr. John Whittle and Nigel Roth from the human insights agency, Further. You’ll find a transcript with links to the resources we discussed today on the IN CLEAR FOCUS page at Bigeyeagency.com/insights. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please consider following us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Audible, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for supporting IN CLEAR FOCUS produced by Bigeye. I’ve been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next week, goodbye.

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