IN CLEAR FOCUS: Thom Mozloom of The M Network discusses why brands like Bud Light and Cracker Barrel face backlash. He argues their marketers don’t understand, or even like, their core audience. Thom explains how to navigate controversy with honesty and why values-driven marketing, not just purpose-led, is key to building loyalty. He also shares fresh research on news consumption and why he believes attention spans haven’t shrunk but tolerance for bad content has.

Episode Transcript

Adrian Tennant: Coming up in this episode of IN CLEAR FOCUS 

Thom Mozloom: It seems to me, at least, that the folks driving the campaigns, particularly for Bud Light and for Cracker Barrel, not only did not understand their core audience, but didn’t like them. And that’s even worse.

Adrian Tennant: You’re listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, fresh perspectives on marketing and advertising, produced weekly by Bigeye, a strategy-led, full-service creative agency growing brands for clients globally. Hello, I’m your host, Adrian Tennant, Bigeye’s Chief Strategy Officer. Thank you for joining us. In today’s hyper-connected world, brands can find themselves at the center of cultural firestorms faster than ever before. From Cracker Barrel to American Eagle, major advertisers are discovering that a single campaign, social media post, or even a logo change can trigger massive consumer backlash and significant stock price volatility. But what separates the brands that successfully navigate these turbulent waters from those that crash and burn? Our guest today believes the answer lies in authentic, values-driven marketing and understanding your actual audience. Thom Mozloom is the president and CEO of The M Network, a Miami-based branding and strategic communications firm that operates under the distinctive tagline, “We can do anything. We choose to do good.” With over 30 years of experience spanning television production and marketing communications, Thom has worked with a diverse range of clients, including Alex Rodriguez during his brand rehabilitation, and government agencies such as the CDC. His agency’s client roster today includes causes, foundations, government entities, educational institutions, media companies, and corporations that are doing good in the world. To discuss how brands can navigate today’s polarized landscape, why values-driven marketing isn’t just good ethics but good business, and what new research reveals about how people actually consume news and information, I’m delighted that Thom is joining us today from Miami. Thom, welcome to IN CLEAR FOCUS.

Thom Mozloom: Adrian, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Adrian Tennant: Well, Thom, before we dive into current marketing challenges, could you tell us a bit about your career journey from television to founding the M Network?

Thom Mozloom: Sure. It’s not unlike your own journey. I spent a good many years in TV. I started off as a reporter. I was terrible at that. Uh, so, so I moved over to creative services and found a home in branding and advertising and marketing for TV stations. I pretty much worked every job you could imagine, right? From camera operator to script writer, to editor, to producer, to director, and eventually worked my way into a vice president’s job at NBC. And during that time, there was consolidation, and television stations and networks were buying each other, and things were getting a lot more corporate. And as I looked around my creative service departments at the four television stations that I oversaw, I realized that this is a team of people who could do anything. Folks who work in creative services and television are so multifaceted that we should just build an agency and let them do their thing for corporate America and nonprofits, and folks. And as we started getting the thing off the ground and forming the M Network, we all had the realization that what we really wanted to do was use our talents for stuff that’s worthwhile, stuff that makes a difference in the world. And so we focused a lot of our attention on large nonprofits, on government agencies that are helping people, on community foundations and fiduciaries and private foundations that are pouring a lot of money into causes and into health and well-being. And so we focused down on that for a while. Yeah, we nibbled at the edges as that took us, but that remains our sweet spot.

Adrian Tennant: Well, your agency’s tagline is “We can do anything. We choose to do good.” So, Thom, what does running a values-driven business look like in practice?

Thom Mozloom: Yeah, so culture is everything for us, not just our culture, but the culture of the organizations that we choose to work with. So we want to make sure that we’re aligned in that. I’m all for making profits. I’m all for having a great business. But over top of that, there’s got to be some give back to the community, some way that what we do and what our clients are doing is making the universe a better place. So, you know, even our corporate clients, we drive them into causes that they’re passionate about and ways that they can give back. And quite frankly, that strengthens their brand. Being the good guys in the communities that they operate in, whether they are a local corporation, statewide, national, international, their brands get stronger the more good they do in the communities that they serve.

Adrian Tennant: Well, recently, we’ve seen major brands such as Bud Light, Cracker Barrel, and American Eagle, among many others, facing significant consumer backlash over their marketing campaigns. Thom, from your perspective, what’s driving this increase in brand controversy?

Thom Mozloom: Well, obviously, the speed at which we communicate has done nothing but accelerate social media, and the ability of hordes or cohorts of people to band together on a single message and start pouring it into the market, whether good or bad, is a phenomenon that is unique to our time. This is going hand in hand with these large brands are fighting for market share in a ever-dwindling fragmented space, and so they’re looking for differentiators. The problem is when you know organizations like Bud Light or Cracker Barrel go out with what they did, they’re just tone deaf, it’s a function of them not understanding their target audiences. Their core audiences, if you have a deep understanding, a relationship with your core audiences, this isn’t going to happen. You’re not going to have these missteps. And if you do, your audience is going to be gracious. They’re going to give you a pass because you have a relationship. But it seems to me, at least, that the folks driving the campaigns, particularly for Bud Light and for Cracker Barrel, not only did not understand their core audience, but didn’t like them. And that’s even worse.

Adrian Tennant: Well, some brands have handled these situations better than others. Thom, what do you think separates successful crisis management from the total disasters?

Thom Mozloom: Honesty. And honesty in complete sentences. When you start trying to defend a mistake and pretend it didn’t happen, or rationalize your way around it, audiences are too savvy for that. They’re going to pick up. And those audience cohorts we talked about earlier are going to band together. And it’s going to form a louder voice, that’s going to snowball because people are going to bandwagon onto that. If you mess up, nobody is perfect. Everybody does. If you come out with an apology, if you could add self-deprecating humor into it, and you could tell people how you’re going to make it right and what you’re going to do about it, hey man, you’d be shocked at how forgiving your core audience will be.

Adrian Tennant: You’ve observed that investor relations often get overlooked in these kinds of brand controversies. Can you explain how you think companies should be communicating with their investors during these types of situations?

Thom Mozloom: I think they should be communicating with their investors regularly, even before these situations in normal times. You have to remember if somebody is literally putting money into your company, they’re investing, they have skin in the game, they’re your biggest fans. they have the most vested interest. And so every company that has investors should be marketing specifically to their investors, to the people who have the money on the table, and keeping them oppressive situations and using them almost as a micro focus group to say, Hey, let me give you a sneak peek at what we’re thinking for our new campaign. If they go ape about it, As Cracker Barrel did, the Cracker Barrel major investor came out after the fact and said, I thought this was stupid from the start and nobody listened to me. Wow, that’s a cardinal sin. That’s you can’t do that in marketing. Because once that money comes off the table, if the investors are unhappy with you, the money comes off the table, then you’re out of a job, period.

Adrian Tennant: Well, let’s talk about audience behaviors. I understand you recently conducted research in South Florida about how people actually consume news and information. Thom, what did you discover?

Thom Mozloom: Yeah, it was super interesting. Like, uh, so we, we do a lot of public opinion research for our clients because we want to make sure that what we’re saying and who we’re saying it to is compelling, right? While public opinion research is oftentimes viewed as, “Oh, that’s too expensive. We can’t afford to do it.” We kind of view it the other way and say, “You can’t afford not to. If you’re going to spend millions of dollars on a campaign, you want to have an idea of whether or not it’s going to hit or not.” So we went out with a piece of research for a client here in South Florida, but we broadened it beyond what we were trying to do on the campaign and asked, “Where do you get your news and information? Where do you find your trusted news and information?” That was the question. And unsurprisingly, it was, you know, 50% answered social media, 20% answered television, and everybody else was somewhere below that. That didn’t surprise us, but we wanted to know, well, “Okay, you’re getting your news and information from social media. Who on social media are you getting it from? Are you getting it from influencers? Are you getting it from friends that you follow?” And the answer was almost overwhelmingly, they’re getting it from news sources. They’re getting it from traditional media sources that are on social media. And so it really struck us that the source hasn’t changed. Only the screen has. And it really galvanized our opinion that public relations is not only still relevant in your media mix, your marketing plan, but it might be more critical than you had imagined. So when you think of, “Oh, well, social media is where everybody gets their news and information” that leads people at the surface level to say, “Well, all we need to do is have a really robust social media presence.” But when you dig into it and find that, no, it’s your local television stations that they’re getting the news from. It’s your local newspaper that they’re getting their news from. It’s the national players that they’re getting their news from. Oh, well, we probably still need to have public relations to get to those guys. So they’re posting our story.

Adrian Tennant: What implications do you think this has for how brands should now approach their communication strategies?

Thom Mozloom: Well, again, I think public relations should be part of your larger strategy. I think social media is still an important part, but it’s not just your social media. It’s other people’s social media as well. And paid social media is also a critical component. But I think more and more people are looking at tactics that work. And we’re finding a resurgence in some of these old tactics because nobody’s using them anymore. We had recently quite good success using outdoor billboards have been highly recognizable transit wrapping buses. If the creative spot on, people notice them and they start taking pictures, and you see your boss on somebody else’s social media platform, and you know that’s like the holy grail. “Oh, we nailed it on that one!” We’ve even had success recently with a direct mail campaign, and I haven’t done direct mail in five, six years. But you know, if the creative is good and it hits your mailbox, it’s something tactile, it’s something tangible. And so it’s pulling people away from the screen. And I think we’re starting to see people have a real desire to have experiences that don’t involve a screen.

Adrian Tennant: Oh, I think you’re onto something there. Thom, considering all the work you’ve done at the M Network, are there any projects that really stand out to you as turning points, either for your business or for your clients?

Thom Mozloom: Well, I think probably personally, we have worked on the ‘Tips from Former Smokers’ campaign from the CDC. If you haven’t seen this, these are the commercials that come on your television that people have, you know, various different maladies that have been caused by smoking. And we’ve worked on that campaign for the better part of 20 years. Well, not too long ago, we got a letter from the Surgeon General, saying that our work has contributed to saving more than 20 million lives. You know, I don’t know that it gets better than that. I think if you’re thinking about what we do for a living and making an impact in communities, when you actually get down to saying, “Hey, you know, the stuff that you did helped save people’s lives.” That’s probably one of the most galvanizing point in our tenure as the M network and something that really helped us stay focused on who we are and what our ethos is.

Adrian Tennant: Let’s take a short break. We’ll be right back after this message.

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Adrian Tennant: Welcome back. I’m talking with Thom Mozloom, President and CEO of the M Network. Thom, recent research from the Ehrenberg Bass Institute found that only 22% of US consumers can identify a brand’s stated purpose, even for brands known for purpose-led marketing. And I’m thinking here of Nike and Dove. Given this low awareness, what’s your perspective on purpose-driven marketing strategies? And perhaps before we even answer that, what’s the difference between values-driven and purpose-driven? Or are they the same?

Thom Mozloom: They’re very similar. So purpose-driven is, this is in the DNA, it’s not necessarily the thing that you’re striving for. Whereas values-driven is “This is what we do. And the vehicle we do it through is our business.” So we tell our clients, as part of our branding and brand management, that we need to identify three non-negotiable values. And those three values infuse every decision that is made within the organization. It not only dictates the marketing and the marketing mix, because listen, there’s going to be places context matters. If I’m a values-driven brand, then one of my values is whatever family-friendly, you know, child advocacy. Well, I’m not going to have my brand adjacent to liquor shops or cannabis stores or things like that, right? Like it says, “I could advertise here, I can’t advertise there.” It also says, ”These are the types of products I sell. And these are the types of products I do not sell.” You know, I don’t want my clients who advertise on radio and talk radio is a big deal here in South Florida and in other markets like Philadelphia, it’s monstrous. In Houston, the Spanish-language station talk radio is monstrous. You know, what else is also monstrous on those station is advertising for ED and all kinds of other, you know, things that wouldn’t necessarily complement a family-friendly or truth and honesty brand. And so we have to tell those stations, “If we’re buying live reads or ads, we don’t want to be adjacent to, I will not pay for spots that are adjacent to these types of spots,” right? Can’t be in the same break. And so that’s how value-driven marketing works. Whereas purpose-driven marketing is, “Yes, we’re all about excellence, but we sell shoes and we sell our real focus is making money off shoes and shirts and athletic gear.” It’s an adjacency not embedded within the culture.

Adrian Tennant: So what about that stat from Ehrenberg Bass? 22% of US consumers say they can identify a brand’s stated purpose, which means an awful lot of them can’t. What’s going on there?

Thom Mozloom: Well, I think that there’s a lot of brands that don’t do it very well. I mean, could you identify Dove’s purpose other than selling soap, right? Can you identify Nike’s purpose other than selling shoes and athletic gear? It would be tough. It would be tough. It’s probably easier with the Ben and Jerry’s, right? Because they’re about social justice, and they’re probably readily identified because their core audience loves that. Or brands like Starbucks that dive in and out, probably not so much. So you really have to start thinking about the values. Are they a marketing gimmick? Is it something you’re saying to try to make your marketing? Or is it really who you are? And again, I go back to I would rather have a values-driven brand that’s honest, where those values pervade every aspect of the business, rather than a purpose driven brand that’s diving in and out as a form of expedience to their marketing. Hmm.

Adrian Tennant: Tell me about some of your clients who you think exemplify this values-driven approach.

Thom Mozloom: I think the client that comes to mind, and this is because I am very good friends with the family that owns this business, so I see it in action, is the venerable Joe’s Stone Crab restaurant. Joe’s Stone Crab is a global icon, and they have a restaurant here in Miami that is getting ready to open for its 113th season. Their non-negotiable values are excellence, care, and attention to detail. When you walk into the restaurant, it exudes that. They have licensed restaurants in Washington, D.C., in Chicago, and in Las Vegas. And they spend a lot of time talking about their ethos to those other restaurants, so that when you walk in, you get the Joe’s experience no matter what. The care part, though, is what really is intriguing. You know, they don’t talk about this. We never market it. We never advertise it. But the family and the restaurant pour millions and millions into local charities here in South Florida every single year. They open the restaurant up to charities. They provide donations. When a hurricane hit Miami not too long ago, there was power out, people were scrambling. Joe’s rallied and essentially fed all of the emergency workers, all of the FPL guys who were out getting the lights back on, all of the trash pickup. They fed all those guys for free. just because it’s the right thing to do. And, you know, we would never publicize something like that. But that to me is the pinnacle of values-driven marketing, a values-driven organization. They don’t just say it in their ads. You know, when all the prices were being raised everywhere a few months ago, Joe’s actually lowered all of their prices. They just said, “Listen, everybody needs to be able to afford a nice night out.” And it was, you know, that’s the type of thing that strengthens that brand and makes it the global icon that it is. You know, there’s pictures of gravestones around the world that say on them, “I’d rather be at Joe’s.” You don’t get a stronger brand than that! 

Adrian Tennant: That’s true. Thom, you’ve embraced podcasting as a medium with your Empower podcast series, as well as being a regular co-host on The Antisocial Podcast. How does podcasting support the M Network’s marketing strategy?

Thom Mozloom: Yeah, so we like to dive in and out of it with series. So it’s a series of podcasts on a specific subject, and then we’ll go away for a while. It really establishes us as subject matter experts in a specific field. And we do very similar to what you do. We bring on guests who know a specific subject matter really well. And our podcast is for our clients. Everybody else who listens, awesome. We love that. But we’re trying to get as much information to our clients during important times as possible. And so we become an information resource to them. And in turn, they often share the podcast with people that they know in their business. And so it supports our goal of providing the best possible service to as many people as we can. I can’t get into a room with all of my clients in one day and talk about what the new executive orders from Donald Trump mean about funding for nonprofits. It would take too long, but I could bring on an expert, have the conversation, just like you and I are having, and send it out, and within an hour, all of my clients have the opportunity to not just tap into the knowledge base of the network, but start planning accordingly. And so it’s become a powerful communication tool for us to our clients and to anybody else who’s marketing or has a business that is impacted by the things that my clients are impacted by.

Adrian Tennant: Well, as someone who also appears regularly on the radio, providing commentary on marketing controversies, for example, Thom, what advice do you give to brands trying to stay relevant without stepping into cultural minefields?

Thom Mozloom: Yeah, so if you don’t have to get involved in the controversial conversations, you shouldn’t, right? You want to serve all of your clientele. You don’t want to be divisive. You want to be a unifying force. People have different opinions about everything from politics to religion, to sports teams. But what my political affiliation is should not matter, and it’s not cogent to what we do for a living. We serve everybody. So that’s number one. Two is you really have to have a relationship with your audiences. You have to know who they are and you have to like them. You have to actually care about the people who patron you, if you don’t, if you just look at them as a means to an end, “They are either going to purchase my product and provide money, or they’re going to make my stocks go up,” man, you’re doing it wrong, you need to check that’s not okay. And those are the folks who get burned first in these sort of, you know, minefields that you talk about. They alienate their target audiences by picking one side or another or doing something stupid. And, you know, it just tells people you don’t care about them. And it’s too easy to communicate with one another right now for you to get away with that. Because the minute you don’t care about me, I’m telling all my friends you don’t care about me, and they’re going to be offended for me. And then the firestorm starts. You don’t need to do that. I think the golden rule should apply to marketing as well as people: do unto others as you would like them to do under you and call it a day, love each other.

Adrian Tennant: Yeah, yeah. Well, I know one of your particular joys is researching commonly held myths, actually, about consumer behavior. You researched the myth about younger consumers having shorter attention spans.

Thom Mozloom: We did. This was really a fun one because this started because at the time, I was watching my teenagers spend hours upon hours on their phone or on a video game. And, you know, I’m looking at them and going, “No, their attention spans are enormous, much longer than mine.” I could not sit there for that long and watch that nonsense, but they seem to be locked in. And so we did a quick study. And what we found out is that, yeah, attention spans have not shrunk, but tolerance for things that suck has really gone down quite a bit. It’s why it’s the methodology or the philosophy behind doom scrolling. They’re just flipping through things they don’t like as quickly as possible, making that judgment in a second or less to get to the thing that they do like. And they’ll watch that for as long as it lasts. You know, you don’t watch a teenager watch a three-hour Marvel movie on their phone, their attention span is fine. But their tolerance for things that aren’t good or things that are irrelevant, way lower. And that’s because this is a generation that has grown up with the ability to change the channel very quickly. Whatever channel that is, move on to the next thing, move on to the next thing. This isn’t it, get rid of it. Next thing, next thing. You know, when we were kids, we had three channels. You know, you’re sort of locked into watching the TV or not, you know, go find a book. But they are inundated with options. So I think the lesson in this is quality matters a lot when it comes to modern marketing. Ad blindness is a real thing. You should be really focused on fewer really good ads or content like what you’re producing right now. You know, if it’s gripping and compelling content to a smaller audience, that’s going to do a lot more for your brand than mediocre content spread to everybody.

Adrian Tennant: Looking ahead, how do you see the relationship between brand marketing and cultural positioning evolving?

Thom Mozloom: Yeah, that’s a real tough one because I think you’ll see it splinter. I think some brands will do very well picking a side, right? Like they don’t care if they alienate half the audience. That’s fine. And they will have a galvanized loyal following among those who are taking their side. And you already see this. This has already taken place across the media landscape. news media, if you can call it, I would not I would be hesitant to call it news. We can have that conversation in a different podcast … 

Adrian Tennant: Opinion media, right? 

Thom Mozloom: The opinion media has proliferated and galvanized because they pick a side, and they stick to that side. And everybody who believes the like-minded believers, you know, fall into line almost in a cultish manner. That’s great. That’s a loyal following. That’s what branding is about. Branding is the emotional connection you create with a target audience. And the stronger that emotional connection, the more loyal they’ll be, the less you have to market to them. They’re coming to you anyway. And so you see that in the media landscape, and it works well. I think you’ll see some of that in the other business sectors as well. But you’re not going to see that in large brands that deal in everyday products like electronics or sporting gear or stuff like that. They’re going to really back away from those statements over the foreseeable future and come back to a more level-headed, even keel. We’re not going to step on that. We’re not getting into that. Now there’s going to be brands like American Eagle who do it on purpose because it’s going to cause a big stir and get them noticed. But it’s going to be up to media and folks like us to figure out which brands are trying to gain the system and which aren’t.

Adrian Tennant: Great conversation. If listeners would like to learn more about The M Network or connect with you directly, what’s the best way to do so?

Thom Mozloom: So you can find us online at m.network. It’s super simple. We’re The M Network. Go to m.network and you’ll get to our website. If you want to connect with me, you know, call the studio. I’m usually around. And if you want to connect on any of the social media platforms, it’s just at mazloom on all of them.

Adrian Tennant: Thom, thank you very much for being our guest this week on IN CLEAR FOCUS. 

Thom Mozloom:  Thanks for having me. It was really fun. 

Adrian Tennant: Thanks again to my guest this week, Thom Mozloom, President and CEO of The M Network. As always, you’ll find a complete transcript of our conversation with timestamps and links to the resources we discussed on the IN CLEAR FOCUS page at Bigeyeagency.com, just select ‘Insights’ from the menu. Thank you for listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, produced by Bigeye. I’ve been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next week, goodbye.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00: Introduction to Brand Controversies  

00:18: Welcome and Guest Introduction  

02:06: Tom Mosloom’s Career Journey  

04:08: Values-Driven Business Practices  

05:14: Increasing Brand Controversy  

06:56: Crisis Management Strategies  

07:54: Investor Communication During Controversies  

09:08: Research on News Consumption  

11:13: Implications for Communication Strategies  

12:21: Notable Projects and Impact  

13:35: Break and Book Promotion  

15:01: Purpose-Driven vs. Values-Driven Marketing  

17:53: Consumer Awareness of Brand Purpose  

18:52: Exemplifying Values-Driven Clients  

21:11: Podcasting as a Marketing Tool  

22:55: Advice for Brands on Cultural Relevance  

24:43: Myth of Shorter Attention Spans  

27:12: Future of Brand Marketing and Cultural Positioning  

29:08: Closing and Contact Information